Inside the global crime networks linking hackers, drug gangs and state agents
The growing overlap between cybercrime, organised crime and state-backed hacking is exposed in an interview with journalist Geoff White
Greater London-based investigative journalist Geoff White is the co-creator and presenter of the BBC’s The Lazarus Heist/Cyber Hack podcast. He explains how cybercrime, financial fraud and state-backed hacking increasingly overlap.
Financial crime now cuts across national borders, criminal groups and technologies. Money launderers, drug gangs, hackers and state actors can share expertise and infrastructure, while businesses are often targeted by people who appear to be legitimate customers.
Geoff White has spent two decades investigating organised crime and technology for the BBC, Channel 4 News and The Sunday Times. As Technology Correspondent for Channel 4 News, he investigated the Snowden leaks, the TalkTalk cyberattack and fraud within the online dating industry. He is also the author of Crime Dot Com, The Lazarus Heist and Rinsed.
In this exclusive interview with the London Keynote Speakers Agency, White examines the connections between organised crime and state-backed cyber groups, the financial crime risks boards still underestimate, cryptocurrency’s role in innovation and money laundering, and the crisis planning required before a major attack.
Q: From your investigations into transnational financial crime, what has surprised you most about the convergence of organised criminals, cyber groups and state actors?
Geoff White: “The global crime networks that I investigate cover all different territories. I look into financial crime fraudsters, money launderers, computer hackers and nation-state cyber teams. You tend to think that these people might be quite separate, that they might work in silos.
“But what you see in these organised crime enterprises is massive crossover. You get government agents working with bedroom computer hackers.
“You get money launderers working with drug gangs across the world and Kremlin influencers. You're seeing this confluence, this coming together of all these different criminal and illicit type of elements.”
Q: Which financial crime threat are boards most likely to underestimate, and how are organised criminals exploiting that vulnerability?
Geoff White: “When it comes to financial crime, a lot of boards and senior people in organisations still have this idea that if there's somebody who's going to do something dodgy within your organisation or to your organisation, they will turn up wearing a balaclava and a leather jacket on a motorbike. They will look like a criminal.
“The criminals and the organised crime gangs behind this are getting increasingly smart at presenting like normal customers. We're seeing this at the moment.
“To a certain extent, the controversy around Jeffrey Epstein as part of that. For a lot of people who worked with him, Jeffrey Epstein just seemed like a very rich, very charismatic person. He didn't present as somebody who was as evil as he turned out to be.
“It's the same with organised crime gangs. These people know your policies. They know your organisation. They know your staff, and that's how they'll get in. They won't present as crooks.”
Q: How should leaders assess cryptocurrency's dual role as a driver of financial innovation and a vehicle for money laundering?
Geoff White: “Cryptocurrency has certainly been on a journey and, regardless what you think of crypto and Bitcoin and Tether and all these other things, it's resilient. I've read Bitcoin's obituary for year after year, and it's still here. It's still going strong, and we're starting to see adoption. In the UK and the US, you're looking at something like 10% of people owning some of these crypto assets. It's not going away.
“In terms of whether it's positive, whether it's a threat, it's a bit of both. Certainly it allows massive innovation, and the blockchain that sits behind it is also starting to be used in some really interesting ways.
“But because it sits outside the financial system, because it's largely unregulated and parts of crypto are resistant to regulation, parts of the industry don't want to be regulated, what that allows is massive gaps for criminals, nation-state hackers and money launderers to drive a truck through. That is still happening. We're still seeing amounts in the hundreds of millions being laundered via crypto.”
Q: When a major fraud or cyberattack occurs, which failures in leadership and crisis preparedness are most commonly exposed?
Geoff White: “When these big hacks happen, the thing that really surprises me is the extent to which it seems that the victim organisation hasn't thought through what they would do when it happens.
“Increasingly, it's a case of when, not if. You can have the best protection in the world, but if you've got an organised crime gang, hacking group who are crawling all over you, they will find a way in. That's their 24/7 job. You're going to fall victim. Unfortunately, that's the message.
“You have to get ahead of that and think: if and when it happens, what are we going to do? What's our messaging going to be like? Where is our sensitive data? What kinds of sensitive data have we got? What's our approach to being held for ransom by a ransomware gang? How are we going to explain this to our internal people, our stakeholders, our partners, our customers and the general public?
“You've got to have a plan for that because, if you don't, you're going to be caught with your pants down when it happens.”
Q: What practical insight do you want audiences to take from your public speeches on financial crime?
Geoff White: “As a journalist, I have these amazing stories. Regardless of how techy this all gets and how financial crime might seem to be spreadsheets, it's not. It's always people.
“There's always a set of characters at the back of this who are interesting, sometimes crazy, sometimes extremely quirky people. I look at the people and their motivations. Then we look at how they work. Then we look at the lessons organisations need to learn to fight against these people.
“What I hope people come out with after my talks is, firstly, a thumping good story, but secondly, some really valuable and applicable lessons that they can start putting in place to stop the bad guys winning.”
This exclusive interview with Geoff White was conducted by Tabish Ali of the Motivational Speakers Agency.